>> OUR THANKS TO EVA PILGRIM. YOU KNOW, SO MANY OF US CAN YOU KNOW, SO MANY OF US CAN EXPERIENCE SELF-DOUBT, HAVE EXPERIENCE SELF-DOUBT, HAVE TROUBLE TALKING ABOUT OUR TROUBLE TALKING ABOUT OUR MENTAL OR STRUGGLE WITH BODY MENTAL OR STRUGGLE WITH BODY IMAGE. IMAGE. OUR NEXT GUESTS, ALL OF THOSE OUR NEXT GUESTS, ALL OF THOSE ISSUES THROUGH HUMOR. ISSUES THROUGH HUMOR. COMEDIAN APARNA IS THE AUTHOR COMEDIAN APARNA IS THE AUTHOR OF UNRELIABLE NARRATOR ME, OF UNRELIABLE NARRATOR ME, MYSELF AND IMPOSTER SYNDROME, MYSELF AND IMPOSTER SYNDROME, AND SHE JOINS US NOW. AND SHE JOINS US NOW. APARNA THANKS FOR JOINING US. APARNA THANKS FOR JOINING US. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. YOU HAVE SELF-DOUBT INTO COMEDY YOU HAVE SELF-DOUBT INTO COMEDY GOLD. GOLD. >> AND SO I WONDER IN YOUR BOOK >> AND SO I WONDER IN YOUR BOOK AND IN YOUR SPECIALS, YOU JOKE AND IN YOUR SPECIALS, YOU JOKE ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL STRUGGLES ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL STRUGGLES WITH DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY WITH DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY USING SELF-DEPRECATING HUMOR. USING SELF-DEPRECATING HUMOR. TELL US WHY YOU CHOSE COMEDY TELL US WHY YOU CHOSE COMEDY AS, A SORT OF COPING MECHANISM. AS, A SORT OF COPING MECHANISM. >> YEAH, I MEAN FOR ME, I WAS >> YEAH, I MEAN FOR ME, I WAS A PRETTY SHY, INTROVERTED KID. A PRETTY SHY, INTROVERTED KID. AND I THINK COMEDY WHEN AND I THINK COMEDY WHEN I DISCOVERED IT AS A YOUNGSTER I DISCOVERED IT AS A YOUNGSTER WAS KIND OF A WAY FOR ME TO GET WAS KIND OF A WAY FOR ME TO GET OUT OF MY OWN HEAD AND CONNECT OUT OF MY OWN HEAD AND CONNECT WITH OTHER PEOPLE. WITH OTHER PEOPLE. I LIVED SO MUCH SORT OF IN I LIVED SO MUCH SORT OF IN MY OWN INNER WORLD. MY OWN INNER WORLD. AND I THINK GAVE ME A WAY AND I THINK GAVE ME A WAY TO BRIDGE MY BRAIN TO OTHER. TO BRIDGE MY BRAIN TO OTHER. AND I THINK BECAUSE THERE AND I THINK BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETIMES A LOT OF ANXIETY, IS SOMETIMES A LOT OF ANXIETY, DEPRESSION AND SELF-DOUBT GOING DEPRESSION AND SELF-DOUBT GOING ON IN MY BRAIN, IT ALSO FELT ON IN MY BRAIN, IT ALSO FELT MORE TO ALSO LEAD WITH THOSE MORE TO ALSO LEAD WITH THOSE THINGS RATHER THAN PRETEND THINGS RATHER THAN PRETEND THEY AREN'T TAKING UP SO MUCH THEY AREN'T TAKING UP SO MUCH ROOM INSIDE. ROOM INSIDE. >> AND YET, DESPITE OF YOUR >> AND YET, DESPITE OF YOUR SUCCESS WITH SPECIALS ON HBO SUCCESS WITH SPECIALS ON HBO AND NETFLIX, COMEDY CENTRAL AND NETFLIX, COMEDY CENTRAL AND EVEN LATE NIGHT TV, YOU SAY AND EVEN LATE NIGHT TV, YOU SAY THAT YOU STILL FEEL LIKE THE, THAT YOU STILL FEEL LIKE THE, QUOTE, PHONY. QUOTE, PHONY. >> WHERE WHERE DO YOU THINK >> WHERE WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT SOURCE OF IMPOSTER THAT SOURCE OF IMPOSTER SYNDROME RUNS SO DEEPLY IN YOU SYNDROME RUNS SO DEEPLY IN YOU ? ? >> YEAH, I MEAN, I'M A KID >> YEAH, I MEAN, I'M A KID OF IMMIGRANTS, THINK I GREW UP OF IMMIGRANTS, THINK I GREW UP ALWAYS KIND OF TRYING TO PLAY ALWAYS KIND OF TRYING TO PLAY INTO THAT ASSIMILATIONIST INTO THAT ASSIMILATIONIST MENTALITY OF WANTING TO BLEND MENTALITY OF WANTING TO BLEND IN AND, YOU KNOW, DRAW IN AND, YOU KNOW, DRAW ATTENTION TO MYSELF, BUT IN ATTENTION TO MYSELF, BUT IN A GOOD WAY. A GOOD WAY. BUT NOT YOU KNOW, STICK OUT TOO BUT NOT YOU KNOW, STICK OUT TOO MUCH WHERE PEOPLE ARE MAYBE MUCH WHERE PEOPLE ARE MAYBE OVERLY SCRUTINIZING. OVERLY SCRUTINIZING. AND I'VE ALWAYS JUST HAD THIS AND I'VE ALWAYS JUST HAD THIS FEELING THAT MAYBE I'M LIKE FEELING THAT MAYBE I'M LIKE RUNNING TO CATCH UP RUNNING TO CATCH UP WITH EVERYONE ELSE IN TERMS OF, WITH EVERYONE ELSE IN TERMS OF, YEAH, JUST IN LIFE. YEAH, JUST IN LIFE. >> I'VE BEEN A LIFELONG LATE >> I'VE BEEN A LIFELONG LATE BLOOMER AND I KNOW GROWING UP BLOOMER AND I KNOW GROWING UP AS AN IMMIGRANT MYSELF AS AN IMMIGRANT MYSELF THAT SOMETIMES YOU FEEL THAT SOMETIMES YOU FEEL A LITTLE BIT OF AN OUTSIDER, A LITTLE BIT OF AN OUTSIDER, BUT HOW MUCH OF YOUR IMPOSTER BUT HOW MUCH OF YOUR IMPOSTER SYNDROME DO YOU THINK SYNDROME DO YOU THINK IS BECAUSE OF YOUR ETHNIC IS BECAUSE OF YOUR ETHNIC IDENTITY? IDENTITY? >> I THINK THAT'S PART OF IT. >> I THINK THAT'S PART OF IT. BUT I THINK FOR ME IT'S SEVERAL BUT I THINK FOR ME IT'S SEVERAL LAYERS DEEP. LAYERS DEEP. YEAH, I THINK BEING MAYBE A KID YEAH, I THINK BEING MAYBE A KID OF IMMIGRANTS, A SOUTH ASIAN OF IMMIGRANTS, A SOUTH ASIAN AMERICAN, AND IN AN ART FORM AMERICAN, AND IN AN ART FORM THAT MAYBE DOESN'T HAVE A TON THAT MAYBE DOESN'T HAVE A TON OF, BUT ALSO BEING, YOU KNOW, OF, BUT ALSO BEING, YOU KNOW, PRETTY SHY AND INTROVERTED IN A PRETTY SHY AND INTROVERTED IN A VERY FRONT FACING INDUSTRY. VERY FRONT FACING INDUSTRY. SO I THINK THERE'S SEVERAL WAYS SO I THINK THERE'S SEVERAL WAYS THAT SOMETIMES MAKE ME FEEL THAT SOMETIMES MAKE ME FEEL A LITTLE BIT LIKE A FISH OUT A LITTLE BIT LIKE A FISH OUT OF WATER, BUT I REALLY TRIED OF WATER, BUT I REALLY TRIED TO BE UPFRONT ABOUT THOSE TO BE UPFRONT ABOUT THOSE THINGS AS I AS I'VE MY CAREER. THINGS AS I AS I'VE MY CAREER. >> SO ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO >> SO ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE FEELING THOSE RIGHT NOW ARE FEELING THOSE RIGHT NOW AND FEELING IMPOSTER SYNDROME, AND FEELING IMPOSTER SYNDROME, WHAT ADVICE CAN YOU GIVE THEM WHAT ADVICE CAN YOU GIVE THEM TO HELP EASE THE WAY THEY SEE TO HELP EASE THE WAY THEY SEE THEMSELVES AND, MAYBE NOT THEMSELVES AND, MAYBE NOT GIVE THEMSELVES ENOUGH CREDIT? GIVE THEMSELVES ENOUGH CREDIT? YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK JUST YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK JUST THE FACT THAT PROBABLY A LOT THE FACT THAT PROBABLY A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FAKING IT TIL OF PEOPLE ARE FAKING IT TIL THEY MAKE IT SO YOU MIGHT FEEL THEY MAKE IT SO YOU MIGHT FEEL LIKE YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE. LIKE YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE. >> AND I THINK A HALLMARK >> AND I THINK A HALLMARK OF IMPOSTER SYNDROME IS FEELING OF IMPOSTER SYNDROME IS FEELING LIKE, YEAH, SURE, PEOPLE MIGHT LIKE, YEAH, SURE, PEOPLE MIGHT FEEL LIKE THEY'RE NOT. FEEL LIKE THEY'RE NOT. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING BUT I REALLY DON'T KNOW DOING BUT I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. WHAT I'M DOING. LIKE IT'S SORT OF YOU BECOME, LIKE IT'S SORT OF YOU BECOME, YOU BECOME CONVINCED OF YOUR YOU BECOME CONVINCED OF YOUR OWN TRUTHS. OWN TRUTHS. >> AND SO HOW DO YOU COPE >> AND SO HOW DO YOU COPE WITH WHAT YOU REFER TO AS WITH WHAT YOU REFER TO AS INTERNALIZED RACISM? INTERNALIZED RACISM? >> THIS IDEA THAT YOU >> THIS IDEA THAT YOU ARE DIFFERENT, BUT YOU ACT, ARE DIFFERENT, BUT YOU ACT, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE YOU KNOW, PART OF THE MAINSTREAM. MAINSTREAM. AT ONE POINT YOU'RE QUOTED AT ONE POINT YOU'RE QUOTED AS SAYING, LIKE, I FEEL SORT AS SAYING, LIKE, I FEEL SORT OF WHITE ADJACENT ALMOST. OF WHITE ADJACENT ALMOST. >> YEAH, I MEAN, ESPECIALLY >> YEAH, I MEAN, ESPECIALLY AS A ASIAN AMERICAN, SOMETIMES AS A ASIAN AMERICAN, SOMETIMES I THINK OF MY GROUP INTO I THINK OF MY GROUP INTO THAT MODEL MINORITY. THAT MODEL MINORITY. I THINK INDIAN-AMERICANS I THINK INDIAN-AMERICANS ARE SOME OF THE HIGHEST WEALTH ARE SOME OF THE HIGHEST WEALTH EARNERS IN IN THE COUNTRY EARNERS IN IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. RIGHT NOW. SO I THINK SOMETIMES THERE'S SO I THINK SOMETIMES THERE'S JUST THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE JUST THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE ALL LIKE SUCCESSFUL, PERFECT, ALL LIKE SUCCESSFUL, PERFECT, YOU KNOW, HIGH ACHIEVING. YOU KNOW, HIGH ACHIEVING. BUT THAT SPEAK FOR OUR WHOLE BUT THAT SPEAK FOR OUR WHOLE GROUP. GROUP. WE'RE NOT A MONOLITH. WE'RE NOT A MONOLITH. AND WE'RE ALSO AND WE'RE ALSO THREE DIMENSIONAL PEOPLE. THREE DIMENSIONAL PEOPLE. AND A LOT OF US ARE, YOU KNOW, AND A LOT OF US ARE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE STRUGGLING THE SURFACE MAYBE STRUGGLING THE SURFACE THAT IT'S NOT JUST THIS LIKE THAT IT'S NOT JUST THIS LIKE PICTURE PERFECT. PICTURE PERFECT. >> AND WE KNOW THAT COMEDY >> AND WE KNOW THAT COMEDY IS ALSO A VERY MALE DOMINATED IS ALSO A VERY MALE DOMINATED INDUSTRY. INDUSTRY. IS THAT PLAYING INTO IS THAT PLAYING INTO THE IMPOSTER SYNDROME? THE IMPOSTER SYNDROME? BECAUSE I KNOW THAT A LOT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT A LOT OF WOMEN THAT WAY IN THE OF WOMEN THAT WAY IN THE WORKPLACE VIS A VIS THEIR MALE WORKPLACE VIS A VIS THEIR MALE COUNTERPARTS. COUNTERPARTS. >> YEAH, I MEAN, I TALK >> YEAH, I MEAN, I TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE IN BOOK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE IN BOOK ABOUT JUST HOW IMPOSTER ABOUT JUST HOW IMPOSTER SYNDROME IS OFTEN MARKETED SYNDROME IS OFTEN MARKETED TOWARDS, WOMEN AND MINORITIES TOWARDS, WOMEN AND MINORITIES AS SOMETHING THEY MIGHT AS SOMETHING THEY MIGHT EXPERIENCE OR OTHER EXPERIENCE OR OTHER MARGINALIZED GROUPS, BUT ANYONE MARGINALIZED GROUPS, BUT ANYONE CAN EXPERIENCE IT. CAN EXPERIENCE IT. BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT REALIZE, LIKE SOMETIMES REALIZE, LIKE SOMETIMES IT'S THE WATER YOU'RE SWIMMING IT'S THE WATER YOU'RE SWIMMING IN THAT'S THE PROBLEM. IN THAT'S THE PROBLEM. AND YOU BEING THE FRAUD. AND YOU BEING THE FRAUD. >> YEAH. >> YEAH. LET'S CLEAN UP THE WATER NOW. LET'S CLEAN UP THE WATER NOW. I APPRECIATE IT. I APPRECIATE IT. I THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING I THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND FOR ADDING YOUR VOICE US AND FOR ADDING YOUR VOICE TO THAT CONVERSATION. TO THAT CONVERSATION. YOUR NEW BOOK, GETTING RAVE YOUR NEW BOOK, GETTING RAVE REVIEWS. REVIEWS. UNRELIABLE. UNRELIABLE. NARRATOR ME, MYSELF NARRATOR ME, MYSELF AND IMPOSTER SYNDROME AND IMPOSTER SYNDROME IS AVAILABLE NOW WHEREVER BOOKS